ComicFury
Had assumed the Ruby/Sapphire duo would be the other way around, but that's what they say about assuming.
I might have a guest comic idea, so keep your eyes peeled...
Guest
as goku would say. "it makes an ass out of You and Ming."
LittleOrangePony (Guest)
Hi there, first time commenter, long time reader here!
I want to say outright that the following message is purely my opinion and Im not trying to tell anyone how to do their storys or comics.
BUT as reader, I think I'm authorized to say, that I'm very unhappy with this whole Chapter/Arc and its getting worse with every page.
It's primarily two points that came up, that I just cant look past and enjoy the story like before.
The first (minor) point is the absurdity of the company vs gamer situation. Lets ignore for a moment the question how a company can force players to sell their campaign. I know Rastaba is sick of this discussion, so lets not get into that. I'm way more interested how selling my campaign would affect me in anyway. What I do with a book, some dice and a couple of friends in my free time is not the concern of any company. I could play a "My little Pony"-campaign with a ruleset that was created for horrifiying and gruesome cage matches in a apocalyptic wasteland and no one could stop me. I bought the rules, what I do with it is my thing. But in the current story, everyone is acting like there is a imperial commissar right next to your table, with a loaded boltgun, ready to blow your brain out / drag you into a court room, the moment you do something that goes against the rules.
Quintessence A: It doesnt make sense everyone is afraid, because nothing prevents them from playing like before, just maybe with a grudge against a company, that now makes money off the stolen property.
LittleOrangePony (Guest)
The second (major) point is how so many webcomics are interweaved now. Originally I thought it was a nice touch that all these comics play in the same universe, it even brought me here from FiD and OP 3.5.
But at this point in this story, it became mandatory to have read ALL the other comics, especially the Avatar-one. "Steven and the crystal GMs" makes no effort to explain any of these - now very important - characters or problems, its just assumed you have read the other stuff. The "d-infinity" is the latest (ridiculous) incident where I'm just scratching my head, wondering what I have missed. The answer: pretty much everything, because I didnt read the Avatar-comic.
Now, the solution would be simple, just read the comic. To be fair, I tried this solution and it just didnt work for me. The first 10-15 pages turned me down so quickly, I had to put this away. Now, I dont want to get into if the Avatar-comic is good or not, what I want to get into is, that you cant expect people to read it. This comic here is "Steven and the crystal GMs", a independent comic and not a sequel to the Avatar-comic!
You dont have to read The Hobbit to understand Lord of the Rings. Same universe, not the same story. And if the two storys cross (Bilbo, Golum, the one ring), everything is explained enough so you can just go with it.
Here it doesnt, everything gets hand-waved because "you know all of this, lets move on".
Quintessence B: The story is so complicated, its hard to follow with just the information Rastaba gives us. A summary of the situation and a introduction in some of these characters (especially the ones from other webcomics) would be appreciated.
Finally, I would like to point out again, that this is just my opinion and no one has to agree with me. I will continue to read the webcomic Rastaba created, but I also think that small adjustments would make it easier for some of us to continue enjoying it, without being confused all the time.
Sincerely
a little orange pony
For the first point: Unfortunately this is where you have to have read the Avatar comic for it to make sense. The campaign up for grabs was going to be published and the creators were really proud of it, but then the Weers corporation did some sort of hostile takeover of the publisher and stopped publication because Weers has a grudge against her son's friends, some of whom were involved in the campaign.
This next bit was in the notes and comments and not (so far) either comic, but this battle is about Betty's residual rights to the campaign, as Weers wants to hurt her son (via his friends) as much as possible, which includes preventing transfer of publication rights later.
That's why any of this is even happening in the first place.
So yes it wouldn't prevent them from playing the campaign setting, but it would be crushing the dreams of the creators (one from each comic), which for Weers is just a way of getting back at the son she feels rejected her (I'm actually reading into her motives more than has been shown 'on screen', but it's a reasonable guess).
In other words, I think your second point kind of encapsulates the first.
Hmmm, would a 'The Story So Far' sort of page, maybe made by all the collaborating artists, work? Just off the top of my head here. It would need to be cross-posted on any relevant webcomics...
http://campaigncomics.wikia.com/wiki/The_Story_So_Far
Here. And you guys can edit it if I left anything out!
Kingpendragon (Guest)
Thank you for that link, it makes everything far easier to understand!
First, allow me to say thank you for reading my webcomic. And sorry this arc is proving unsatisfactory for you. I can’t really say anything on either of your points since both are entirely valid and make complete sense. On B, I definitely should have given that more thought and linked to the appropriate comics to give better background on that.
As far as A, I myself admit, Weers Publishing makes zero literal sense if you apply any degree of real rationality to them. Like seriously I will not hesitate to joke about how these people shouldn’t even be in business period with how crazy it is. I mean at least Kaiba had the excuse of building a super technology to play the games with holograms anywhere in Yugioh. Unless you wanna like sell your game to someone else to publish or publish materials pertaining to your created properties, they really shouldn’t be able to do anything more than be a bunch of gaming bullies.
B though, agains yeah, definitely made a bit of an assumption on that and apologize how that is spoiling your enjoyment, and the enjoyment of others in a similar situation as yourself. At this point however I have no intentions to just go about rewriting this arc, though as I suggested earlier I probably can given time and opportunity properly apply some links to comics necessary to understanding certain matters.
Again, thank you for reading.
Xaran Alamas (Guest)
Regards the crossover stuff, specifically the D-Infinity. I've still not got round to reading D&D Aangvanced yet but I feel it was explained enough for the context of THIS comic as being some kind of gaming urban legend. Sure it apparently has ties to D&DA but I don't feel that reduces the ability to enjoy this comic in isolation. From the other references I can remember it also seems explained enough for what is relevant to this comic and D&DA is just there for more in depth info in that regards.
One way of looking at it is that we the readers have from the start pretty much been seeing the story through the eyes of Finn and Jake. With the exception of the GeM origin specials we don't learn anything about the other players' backstory or history that Finn and/or Jake don't know and we learn it when they do. In this context Finn and Jake know no more about the goings on of the campaign of D&D Aangvanced and the Weers than we the readers do from reading the comic. For me having not read Aangvanced Tom and the Weers are these mysterious, omnious villains and that actually adds something to the story in my opinion rather than take it away.
@Rastaba One request I do have is some kind of character page. This would be especially useful for the characters in the origin specials and crossover characters like Tom to provide a basic idea of the characters as it can get a bit confusing.
I’d love to do a cast page...but know literally zero about how to make one on the site.
What aspect do you need help with?
Everything about how to make another page-tab thing, and how to format said page to make a cast page. So everything.
Kira (Guest)
would also help if there was a list somewhere with all the webcomics involved in this.
Gabrote42 (Guest)
Mostly had this exact same problem due to how I read but this comment thread alleviated it a bit. I would have preferred either the LoTR way that you mentioned or the HiveSwap FriendSim way that I know worked but I might take the time to read up on the other one.
LittleOrangePony (Guest)
Thank you for the response to my initial message.
@Needling Haystacks
Thank you for the summary, this really helps to get a grasp at why all this is so important. Knowing how much is on the line (the dreams and hopes of several people) because of such lowly motives (of one person) gives this arc a new meaning (in the eyes of some one like me who didnt know all this). Thank you!
@Rastaba
Rewriting the arc? Good god, no! I never meant that something drastic like this is in order. "Small adjustments" like linking to important informations or the suggested "The story so far"-page to get everyone up to speed and everything should be a-ok.
@Xaran Alamas
Yes, the d-infinity was kind of explained on the last pages, but initially it left me baffled and I immideatly put it into the "another aangverse-thing" category. I guess that was a hasted action, caused by a feeling of "over-saturation" of cross-comic elements. In the end, the d-infinity was the thing that gave me the urge to write my comment, so I didnt want to leave it out.
I like your arguments that we would be in the shoes of Jake and Finn, learning with them, but I was also afraid that we as readers wouldnt learn "enough" to understand the situation completly.
I think I will give the Avatar-campaign another go and try to bite my way through the (felt) entrance barrier. If you all read it and Rastaba think its good enough material to weave it into the crystal GMs-comic, it cant be that bad ;)
Sincerely
a little orange pony
I had to archive trawl or troll or whatever for info on the d-infinity and... there wasn't much. A few pages back was MORE explanation than D&DAang gave: according to the author there (posting in a comment here a few pages back), because they themselves weren't sure what it entailed.
Cliff Robotnik (Guest)
The entire thing makes the most sense when you realize the CC-verse runs on Yugioh logic :D
Wuzz (Guest)
The good news it at least unlike some comics I've read, at least the discussions about the comic don't devolve too far into just toxicity and keep fairly civilized.
In hindsight, this arc has mostly suffered from crossover bloat. As it stands, a reader will read the comic. A fair chunk may read the Author notes, and maybe a select few the comments below it. Perhaps, aside from a summary or guest page, it may also be useful for Rastaba to link relevant other comic pages in the author notes as well? Like, when Darths and Droids talks about something in TV tropes, they'll find the link and place it in their notes so if you're curious how something came to be, a person can go on their own to find it. If they reference something way in the past pages of the comic, they link there. Perhaps providing links to certain other comics and pages would help spur more people into investigating, rather than relying on this story's pure narrative to get them through?
Okay, I'll play my own devil's advocate on this, and say, "yes, this puts a lot of effort on Rastaba's part". And no, it's not necessarily a fair demand if this increases his workload to do so. Do I have a solution for this?
Well, no... But at least the thought is out there and maybe worth mulling over.
Oh my. D&D Aangvanced may be about toxic friends (who get better through the magic of D&D!) but I am not my characters and don't want to encourage real world fighting and bitterness. It's like Always Sunny in Philadelphia, your table and friends should be nothing like what you see there.
Wuzz (Guest)
I was referring more to the comment section. Sometimes you'll read something and people just tear into each other. For example, I really didn't even know about the whole avatar comic until i posted a comment, because the arc had gotten confusing. But in other webcomics, at least I wasn't just ripped to shreds about being overbearing because of something I didn't know.
Though, the problem I'll have with D&D aangvanced is I never watched the series... so I won't really have any fun reading about something like that because unlike other tablegame webcomics, I really can't compare it to something I know. I even gloss over a chunk of the backstory ones in this comic due to lack of exposure to a lot of the source materials...
Yeaaaaah. I hope people here know this isn't a Youtube comment section. And strangely, I never get any flack about doing the same stuff in my inbox or the forum thread on Giant In The Playground, but Rastaba has so many people demanding explanations and suggesting rewrites it's nearly given her a complex.
Wuzz (Guest)
True, and writers will eventually come to a point that they know what's going on, but an audience member does not. And at that point, it may require addressing. Sure, sometimes it's like trying to answer some superfan's question about why in this episode of Star Trek this continuity error happened, but not every question about a setting has to be taken as harsh critique. At least, that's at least what I've attempted to convey in my curiosities. After all, if the writer doesn't understand their setting, how can they expect the audience to? Whom better to levy one's queries?
Though, the reports that people are spamming inboxes and demanding things in such volume that it's become a problem disturbs me. It's one thing to ask for an explanation, but to demand a rewrite suggests serious arrogance.
Hey LOP. I know it seems like there's a big need to read both comics to enjoy the story, but there really isn't anything you'll find there that Rastaba should have directly cited. The Crit Con backstory (http://dandaangvanced.tumblr.com/post/161629442323/manny-interlude-arc-7-all-stars) gives the d-infinity maybe two pages but isn't explained in any way you need to have read. Referring to it as an urban legend is probably a better way to understand it (as Xaran Alamas said).
As far as the legality goes, yeah it's a terrible company, but one based in how American copyright law can work, which isn't that logical in the first place. And again it's already been put better already. Needling Haystacks is right on the money. It's not whether it's legal or not that you lose your campaign, it's the idea that all of these campaign ideas in this world are the beloved creation of their respective DMs. Having that taken away would destroy each one of them and crush their dreams. It shouldn't be framed as a legal battle, the legality is just set dressing. This arc (for both comics) is about everything these DMs have worked hard to create and the good times with their friends being drained of all fun and boxed up for profit. Sure it's a little silly, but the stakes below the legal mumbo jumbo should still work. Just don't ask how the court stuff works.
Or at least stop asking Rastaba. She's going on a break for crying out loud.
Xaran Alamas (Guest)
@DeadpoolSan It just occured to me there is a certain amount of Fridge Brilliance to this too. As I've said I've not yet read your fine webcomic but from what I've seen of the Weers in Rastaba's fine webcomic here I provide an alternative take:
It seems like they work by massive intimidation of their targets.
In all likelihood they know what they're doing would be taken apart easily by a good lawyer if it actually made it to court... so they rely on their targets not being able to afford the sort of legal representation they can and the fact that as you say if you're not a lawyer who understands legaleese and especially not a copyright lawyer it will all be very confusing. They intimidate and bully their targets into submission so that it never makes it to court.
And the sad thing is, this sort of tactic is used frequently by in the real world to scam people or trick them into settling for less than they might get in an actual court case (for example) I'm under the impression a lot of real world copyright claims by big businesses are resolved out of court often using these very tactics.
TL;DR: The Weers are bullies with corporate lawyers.
Xaran Alamas (Guest)
...aaaand I just realised I seriously misspelled your name. Sorry Deadpansal, not Deadpoolsan x)
Yeah, that's pretty much correct. They prey on indie creators who don't have the resources to fight back and often sign something that gives up more than they should and if they agree to play against Tom (which they're pretty likely to lose), they're legally giving away their property.
And Deadpoolsan is way cooler than my name. Wow. I should have picked THAT.
Rastaba
Just a reminder, I will be taking a break after Jailbreak so I will be accepting guest comics. No real limits beyond no wider than 800 pixels. Height as I've demonstrated is fine to fiddle with.
Next page is tomorrow, Friday!
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